Interview with Anna Hints, director of Smoke Sauna Sisterhood

*This interview was made possible through pre-recorded zoom meeting between Anna Hints and Marianne Ostrat, with questions sent by WMWFF. Special thanks to the generosity and kind sharing of Anna Hints and Marianne Ostrat.
 

Ｑ：Please briefly introduce the Smoke Sauna tradition in South Estonia.

Smoke Sauna tradition is very old. It dates back to pre-Christian times. It is a sacred space for us in Southeast Estonia. But not only Southeast Estonia, it is also on islands. But in Southeast Estonia, the traditions are still preserved.

You go there naked, not just body-wise naked, but also soul-wise naked. And it's a place where you can wash off dirt from your body, but also from your soul. It's connected with transformational and healing powers. Like my granny said, you go there and some part of you dies and some part of you is reborn. Going there, you can redefine yourself and regain your power.

Ｑ：What was your motivation behind making this film? Why making this smoke sauna as the site of filming?

I come from this culture. The heritage was passed on to me through my granny. I've thought about where the roots of the film are, they go back to one specific time when I was 11. My grandfather had just died and his body was in the house. And we went to a smoke sauna with granny, aunt, and niece. This is what you do exactly, go to purify yourself before important events.

There my granny revealed that my grandfather had betrayed her and lived with another woman for a while. She confessed how difficult it was. It was Soviet time and she had four children to raise. She released all the emotions connected to that. She released the pain, anger, and frustration. We were there witnessing it. One smoke saunas session last for several hours. When we once went out, I felt that granny had made peace with my grandfather, so that next day we could bury grandfather in peace. This really stuck me. I came to understand smoke sauna as a safe space where all your emotions and experiences can be shared and heard. When we give voice to these experiences without judgment, without shame, then there is huge healing power. We are validating ourselves. We are washing off the shame and pain and anger.

I wanted to transform the power of Smoke Sauna into an experience in the dark cinema hall and to give hope and encouragement for everyone who watches it. Find and create these safe spaces to be vulnerable.


Ｑ：Can you elaborate on the filming process? In face of the humidity, the high temperature of the environment, how do you shoot?

It was very challenging. I mean, when you talk to someone and say that you want to shoot in dark, humid, and very hot space, it is like a huge challenge! Speaking of the temperature, the average temperature was 80 degrees Celsius, sometimes higher, sometimes a bit less, but generally 80 degrees. We had to be really prepared. As a director, you must choose the right people around you who are not saying no to the challenges, but yes, let's find solutions for that. Like the producer Marianne, and cinematographer Ants Tammik And also Tanel, who was holding the boom. You can imagine it's not easy to hold the boom in smoke sauna.

First, I had to make sure that nobody passes out. We had ice bags around the camera. Cinematographer and sound operator had wet cloth on their heads, dripping all the time. We must also make sure water is being drunk regularly. The cinematographer had gloves to prevent get burn because camera gets hot.

Heating up the smoke sauna takes around six hours, sometimes more. We had to adjust the equipment to the environment. We had two lenses. One for outdoor shooting, the other for indoor. In smoke sauna, in order to let the equipment get adjusted to the temperature, we first put it on the floor. After two hours of heating up the sauna, we put it at higher position. And then after two hours, we adjust it to even higher position. We knew that probably we would lose some lenses, so we used very good but not too expensive ones. We lost two in the whole process. And the filming took seven years.

Ｑ：Couldn't it have been shot then in cold sauna?

Oh, no, definitely not. In order to have the smoke sauna magic to happen and bring out the essence of this very special place, you need hot smoke sauna. And darkness must be there because all is part of this magic. You start to sweat out the dirt from your body. From the surface level and then get deeper and deeper, dirt comes out physically, but also emotionally. It’s very challenging, but it’s also important to find the ways to shoot like this.

I think it is also very important to talk about how we shot. In smoked sauna, this nakedness is very important. When you enter there naked, you put away not just physical clothes, but also masks that we carry. You enter this cosmic universe that holds you, nourishes you and keeps you warm. But another question is: how to shoot that nakedness? That was a challenge for me. Especially how this nakedness is not presented as objectified nakedness or sexualized nakedness. How to avoid male gaze? How this gaze towards women won’t lead to ideas of women being certain types?

We paid a lot of attention to the presentation of nakedness. And we tested it with the cinematographer on our own bodies, on my own body and finding this key and also tested it with other women, talking about how they felt, etc. The result is really seeing everybody, and the bodies become landscapes. I'm very happy for the result, women wrote to me, and actually many men have written to me, saying they never know women's body can be seen this way.

For me, one of the messages related to the visual choice or the language of cinematography, is to make you feel different way of being accepted.

Ｑ：How did you find the protagonist or the sauna keeper, Kati?

Yes, we call her a sauna keeper. She came on the second or third year of shooting. She's a friend that I know a long time.

I had this thing that I should not persuade anyone to be part of the film. The process was very transparent concerning what level of intimacy and honesty I'm looking for. Only when people felt like joining it, they would be part of it. Secondly, to shoot this level of intimacy, we really need to have deep trust with one another. We agreed to the fact that they don't sign their releases before post-production, before they see the edit. Only after they say yes, we can continue. This requires huge vulnerability from the production side. But I think this film could not have been done otherwise. So it was really deep trust. Otherwise they would have been very self-conscious concerning what to say or not to say. But nobody can take their voice away. And the sisterhood continued after the filming.

We didn't rehearse and we didn't go through what we are going to say in the smoke sauna. Let's go to smoke sauna and then things start to emerge. As you sweat, things come up.

So Keiti came on shooting as a friend. Her mother had died. She heard about this project and really wanted to join the journey, this healing spiritual journey through the smoke sauna. Through this film, tackle some of the patterns that she wants to change and not to pass on to her daughter, and to heal the relationship between her and her mother. She later came on board and she was in all saunas.

I think while talking about this film, it is also important to talk about how the whole process was like. As a director, what I believe in is not just about the subject matter but how we make films. It’s so important to understand how you can make bold, vulnerable, and powerful films, while being transparent and being open without abusing your power. It’s about including everyone. It's sisterhood that goes beyond genders.

Ｑ：Absolutely. Next question is: As a singer in the electronic folk EETER, and one half of the composer for this film, how does your profession in music contribute to this film? And can you elaborate on the use of music in the film?

I think filmmaking and composing are connected. Especially in editing process, how everything comes together, musical terminology is something that I use a lot. Music is something important and natural thing to do. It’s connected to smoke sauna and my heritage. My granny passed on many folk songs to me.

When we think about what this film is about, you can say it’s about the whole experience of being born into a female body. How do we give voices to our experiences, how to give voices to all our emotions and experiences? From the start, it’s important that female voices are there. The band naturally comes in, because our band was made of three females, even though I define myself non-binary, but basically three people who are born into female bodies.

Other part is from an Icelandic composer, Eðvarð Egilsson. I think this combination works very well. Our first meeting was in fact in a smoke sauna, getting naked. He flew from Iceland to Estonia. And we saw there is connection, in terms of deep connection with nature and sacredness in nature. We talked about where all the sounds come from: from the space, from nature, from the wood, from metal, from water, so that sounds from the space emerge together.

Ｑ：What is the most important message that you want to deliver through this film?

To really look into oneself. And not be afraid of the dark spaces, not be afraid of whatever experiences we have had. To give voice to all our experiences and emotions, to be the first one to start the sisterhood. In this kind of sisterhood, we are not competitors, we can support each other, give strengths to each other without judgment, without shame, and through that empower each other. I believe in this world where this way of being and being connected to each other and being also vulnerable with each other is possible.

This sisterhood is going beyond genders. there is not an easy way to be connected. It means to go through the uncomfortableness and being vulnerable.

Ｑ：For me, Smoke Sauna Sisterhood is a moment of radical self-acceptance. It's also somehow starts with accepting, yes, accepting yourself. Then you can accept the others. With all the illnesses and traumas and whatever we have been through in life. Now mentioning Women Make Waves IFF is getting 30 years old this year. What should we do about it?

I think we should sing a song for all of you who attend the festival. There is this old tradition in Estonia of singing where one said a verse in the beginning and then everyone repeats [start singing].

We believe in our culture, the power of words. When you say something, you create that thing. When we do it all together, we create that bond and empower more. This is also a thank you song for this festival. What you have been doing is very important: empowering women. This is also what this film is doing. So I feel very warm feelings towards this festival. Thank you all.

I really hope now that you can feel that smoke sauna and its magic and power in cinema. After you come out, some transformation has happened. Courage to be vulnerable, courage to voice your experiences and courage to redefine yourself. Own your body, own your voice outside cinema too.