I can make this thing, and it exists!!
Interview with Patricia Rozema, director of I've Heard the Mermaids Singing

Q: I’ve Heard The Mermaids Singing is now regarded as queer classics. Now looking back, what made you decide to make I’ve Heard The Mermaids Singing? What drove you to tell an “unusual” story back then?

I made I Have Heard the Mermaid Singing at the state of innocence and ignorance. Deliberate ignorance, actually. I was very keen not to imitate other movies. I wanted it to have its own voices, its own style. And I felt like a lot of movies were efficient vehicles of expected messages, and I knew that I was not a standard general issue type of human. I am queer and female in the film business which was much rare at that time. I was 27. It was 1987. 35 five years ago, my friends.

So I wanted to have its own voice, and I didn’t expect a giant audience for it. I wasn’t opposed to it, but I really approach filmmaking that one might approach making a painting. You think: yeah, maybe people would like it, maybe I can do well enough to make another movie, but I don’t know.

I was just very moved by the combination of narrative, music and a voice that was not compromised by the system or the business. I didn’t study film, I study philosophy and literature in religious context, so I came from a very unusual place for this kind of career choice. It wasn’t even about career, it was more like, “let’s try this.” I love all the parts, and wouldn’t it be amazing if I can make something that holds together. I love writing stories and telling stories. I just thought I would put it all together, and if people like it great, but if people don’t like it, there is still this thing there! I can make this thing, and it exists!! There is nothing like that outside. I wasn’t seeing what I wanted to see. Anything that has lesbian or queer have a bit feeling of tragedy or cautionary tales. But I just want to put queerness in the context of bigger life. It was not like here’s the story (with robot-like voice): human woman feels attraction for human woman. Will she be able to have this attraction fulfilled? Will these human lesbians together? No, that felt like diminishment of my experience, so I wanted to talk about many more things as well, because I think, one’s sexuality, one’s orientation is one of many many things. I am many many things, so I am not only those things, and I felt I want to embed it into a larger life and other questions about art making, confidence, authority in art and subjectivity.


Q: It not only set an important milestone in both queer cinema, but also in the development of the Toronto New Wave, and the film was selected for the 1987 Cannes Film Festival. Can you share about the experience back then?

The time was kind of exciting in Toronto, Atom Egoyan was a friend, and there was Don McKellar, Bruce McDonald. But in fact we had a great tradition of writers in our country, like Margaret Atwood, Alice Munro. Michael Ondaatje, and Ann-Marie MacDonald. She hadn't started writing yet, but she was one of our greats I believe. So I do feel there was a new energy, and there was new money actually, to be perfectly frank. We are always a kind of documentary country and the Americans did the fiction, and suddenly there was new emphasis on doing new fiction films. And I just happened to be someone standing at the door with my hand holding my idea called, I’ve Heard The Mermaids Singing. So I got some money to do it and submit it to the Cannes Film Festival. I filled out the form without telling anybody but my producer, Alexandra Raffé. I thought no one needed to know. We'll just fill this out and let it be held. We got a call, and had to send it there and off we go!

And it was an extraordinary event, here we were stunned. Sheila McCarthy, Alexandra Raffé and I were there. We thought we were impostor syndrome on steroids. We laughed most of the time, my French was absolutely terrible. It's not much better now. And we kept saying, "quel fromage" which means "what cheese," which is all we could think of saying.

Basically Pierre-Henri Deleau watched it, and said we're gonna program it. The giant challenge was to get our 16mm blown up to 35mm, because it couldn’t be shown at Cannes unless we blew it up, so that we have to figure out 50 thousand dollars or something. A good man Jan Rofekamp came to the floor and gave us the money. Suddenly the film was sold to 40 countries in Cannes. People were sending champagne and standing ovations. It was so moving for me. I felt like I was this weird, completely alone outsider. Just doing some sketches, and humming along, and that was my movie. Suddenly I was at the stage of one of the biggest film festivals in the world. People are laughing and crying, that is the stunning moment that I would cherish my whole life. To have your heart welcomed into the hearts of others, is a stunning moment in anyone’s life.


Q: There were three main characters. Can you share with us what’s the idea of having these three characters? Was finding Polly a challenge back then?

I made three character, and they are one side of me, the curator with more critical mind, Polly is more innocent and insecure and a bit oblivious mind, and Mary Joseph character (starring Ann-Marie MacDonald) is more like artist who is afraid to present themselves, and just want to make things, but confident in her own sexuality. I put them all in opposition to each other, as a strategy for creating authentic dialogue, and making sure that I take each voice seriously, like they are part of me, and at comfort as they were. But the conflict was I have seen movies, heard music, seen arts that are of huge impact for me. What if I can’t make it? I wanted it more than anything, What if I can't? Should I do it anyway? Should I just like trick and finagle, and like force myself into something so that I can still do it? Should I take the naysayers seriously? They don't get me as the fact of being a woman, which was much more rare at that time. And lesbian taboo, and coming from a Dutch Calvinist background. And I also have this idea of should I look kind of dark, super thin, kind of anguish, smoking and hunched over. I just have this image that I didn’t fit. I didn’t fit my own image. I wanted to be Susan Sontag actually, but I didn’t look like that. Anyway.

So I thought, just make things that you want to see, trust the voices, trust that somehow debating within yourself is a worthy one. And have fun! I hadn't thought it would be a comedy actually, and the VHS or DVD (yeah back in those days) ended up in the comedy section, that kind of surprised me. I thought it was going to be sort of a gently amusing, thoughtful, magic-realist base, but anyway.

Sheila McCarthy was gold. I auditioned for this character Polly for a long time, a lot of people. When she came, my memory was like, “oh my god, you are perfect.” Her memory was like I had an audition for five hours or something horrible (laugh). She was about to get fed up and walk out if I didn’t give it to her right away. And I did give it to her. We have remained friends. Actually see a movie called Women Talking by astounding filmmaker Sarah Polley. Sheila McCarthy played a very old woman, and she does so beautifully. The whole film is so extraordinary. And I don't think that they're unrealistic that this film will be getting some attention, come Oscar time. It's so specific to a place and time, and leaps with incredible confidence and presence to transcendent embodiment of the most important discussion right now. See Women Talking by Sarah Polley if you can.

Sheila  and I just dared to have fun all the way through. She had this fantastic sense of humor, we made each other laugh all the time. Like almost immediately, I can say things like, “Ok, cut, Sheila can you just act better?” And she would laugh. Doug Koch shot it. He had a great sense of humor and visual humor. And that's not given to everyone. When she goes to the curator's birthday party, she’s carrying this large box, and does everything wrong. Embarrassment is a lovely thing to play.

The film touches upon many different aspects of art. And Embarrassment, one of the most fruitful realms of human experience. When we are embarrassed, we are actually changed in color. Like liquid coming out of a palm. It was a profound force for us. Very difficult sometimes to watch, and healing to see in others, because we all live in such a desperate grasp on our own dignity. When we felt it slipping away, we felt like ourselves were slipping away. I just stumbled on that as a state of being to explore. I think that might be one of the things people are responding to with this movie.

Q: After around 35 years, how do you look at this movie now?

It’s my first born. It’s my friend, it still makes me laugh. I cherish the freedom that I had in it. When I didn’t expect or hope for anything, it’s a lovely state of being to make art in. I love the camera monologue, because it’s intimate, you are looking at eyes. And I am proud of it. I hope you find it worthy with your time, and share it with your friend if you can. I send you good will to Taiwan, and send the festival good will. If there is anyone out there on the brink of making movies, hear your own voice, trust it. Get as much homework, do the homework, and listen to yourself, and work, and play. That's my advice to you.